MAP + SAHD = Mutually Exclusive?

SouthPawSouthPaw Central NJSilver Member Posts: 62
Athol does make mention of at-home dads once or twice in the book, but just in passing and nothing about how that changes the game. Everything else I've seen here about being an at-home dad pretty much says "don't".  Well I'm already there and not in a position to fix that any time soon.  So how does one MAP from such an entrenched Beta starting position?

I mean, weight I can still fix.  I can still be as assertive, flirty, cocky, etc as I need to. I can try to take over managing the bills & finances, but I'll still have the "low value" handicap of being an at-home dad and not bringing in any money.

So I guess the real question for the short term is "are Alpha/Red Pill and the at-home dad" incompatible?"  Or should I just fix what I can fix and not expect any real results until years down the road when the kids are in school and I can work again?


  • TemplarTemplar WashingtonSilver Member Posts: 3,362
    edited March 2013
    My brother is doing it - it isn't you, is it? :P He is lucky, cause he got laid off from a very Alpha job, so that was running for him to begin with. Then, his wife is very red-pill. He is sticking it out until the youngest starts school this fall then back to work.
    Seriously, though. It is definitely harder to not financially provide for the family, stay at home with the kids and still maintain the Alpha and Captain status. Just because you don't fill the bank account doesn't mean you can't pay the bills and keep the family books. It isn't just about being flirty and cocky. It is about making sure things run as they should, family plans, etc.
    Things that can help are having manly hobbies, like woodworking, hunting, shooting, camping, etc. Have projects that you are building so it does not come off that you are sitting at home chasing babies and washing the laundry.
    My few tips!
    AWACS[Deleted User]Mona
  • 2manypasswords2manypasswords OhioSilver Member Posts: 366

    I've been a work-at-home dad for several years, though people often assume I'm a SAHD w/ no income of my own b/c I take care of most things related to kids (plus, I don't usually dress up as a result of working from home much of the time).  My son has a medical condition that will keep me in this role for at least a few more years.  So here's some advice for @SouthPaw, in no particular order:

    1) You absolutely, positively, have to generate income of your own.  Even if it's just a little bit to start.  Shovel driveways, sell stuff online, something.  Being in this role tests my sanity as it is, but I would have gone completely bonkers by now if I wasn't generating income of my own.

    2) I have learned a lot about women while in this role.  You might as well use this opportunity to do the same.  Talk less, listen more, and pay attention to the subtle words & actions especially (which women have down to a science).  Once they get used to your presence & they start acting more like they normally would, you'll learn there is as much backstabbing and subterfuge on the playground as there is in any corporate boardroom. 

    3) If you're not managing the money already, start doing so.

    I have to run, but will post more tips later if I can.


    Templar[Deleted User]TheatreMommy
  • here2playhere2play Member Posts: 716

    If you look at the home and family as the ship, is there a reason that the captain has to be off of the ship and off of the bridge in order to be captain?  Does a captain have to go ashore every day and bring back the fuel for the ship personally every day or can he manage it from on board the ship??

    I guess I am not advocating SAHD vs work-outside-the-home dad?   I am sincerely asking the question.  I want to know myself.

    Since so much of what is being touted as male roles and responsibilities involve leadership, decision making, planning, managing finances, fixing things around the house, working out and being fit, looking good, being cocky/funny/flirty, initiating sex, generating responsive desire, creating dread/pre-selection etc etc     

    Do those things have to be done outside the house or can they be done from within the home?

    Quite frankly, for me I think it is easier to go out and make the money and bring it home than it is manage it and plan it. 

    In fact a big part of my falling down is because I am out of the home working so much that when I came home, is I was a slug and just kind of sat around doing my own thing.  The reason my wife kind of took over the yard work, home repairs and financial management/planning is because she was the one home to do it.

     I'd like to think if I was a SAHD I could work out hard, fix things around the house, take care of the yard and house repairs, Captain the kids, and do a lot of the strategic planning etc for the family better if I was home vs spending so much of my time at work. 

    I really believe in the old Ben Franklin saying, "a penny saved is a penny earned."  I think if I was at home managing money and saving money by being cost efficient on how the outflow of the money went, it would be as viable as the income being brought in. 

    Dread and preselection you say?    How many fit, well groomed, well dressed, actively parenting dads are going to school functions, kids activities, PTA meetings and helping out the neighborhood SAHMs with on the spot house repairs and other emergencies during the day???  My guess is not too damn many.  I think I SAHD could have a nonsexual harem in no time and maybe even a very adulterous herem in the neighborhood if he wasn't carefull.  (remember the moms coming on to Michael Keen in Mr Mom)

    When the studies indicate happier households when it is SAHMs vs SAHDs I tend to believe it but I can't help but wonder how much time, effort and leadership these SAHDs are putting it to it. If a guy is at home because he's a lazy bum and doesn't want to work, then yeah, I can see how the legs would slam shut.  But  I think if a SAHD put his heart and soul into running a tight ship and maintained an alpha leadership frame, I think he may kick ass.  

    If the legs slam shut simply because a guy is at home running things vs spending his days outside the home simply bring in the money, then that lizard is one messed up critter. 



  • here2playhere2play Member Posts: 716

    ....And as a side note that I think does play into this a little bit.   On one of the TED talks that Drumhorn linked today, Dr Helen Fisher noted that IN The Time Before Writing, hunter-gatherer women most likely DID work outside the home during the day and probably brought home 60-70% of the family food each day. 

    The SAHM with the husband bringing home the bacon is a fairly modern development. 

    I think @2manypasswords is correct in that it's not so much at who is at home, but rather that each is making significant contributions to the ecomonic viability of the family and how much management and leadership is taking place.  

    I am just curious as to how much of that economic viability for man needs to come from the corporate boardroom vs the home it'self in regards to his own SR.

  • 2manypasswords2manypasswords OhioSilver Member Posts: 366

    @Highlander2 has alot of good points.  And in my case, my wife has never really been treated like "one of the gals" by the other women where we live because we do not fit the norm (i.e., husband works full time, wife works part-time or not at all)

    @here2play - your vision of the SAHD life and reality do not jive.  Maybe it's partly because I'm in a conservative area, but here, the PTA and anything school related is pretty much the moms club.  Which is too bad, because my kids' elementary schools could use an injection of testosterone.

  • SouthPawSouthPaw Central NJSilver Member Posts: 62
    Ok, encouraging stuff.

    Synopsis - if I'm gonna be one, own it.  Sound strategy regardless of the bedroom situation.

    As far as point 2 from @2manypasswords and @here2play with the "non-sexual harem" goes... we're isolated in a city of 2 million.  No joke - 99% of the time I take the kids to the playground it's empty.  99% of the times it's not empty it's just one or two older kids with no parents.  The times there have been kids with parents, it was the dad all but once I can think of.  It's almost always just me, my two boys, and a shitload of fire ants for me to keep them out of.

    That's another reason I wish we had been able to get them into daycare - socialization.  Neither I nor my wife are social butterflies - far from it.  I always score a 100% "I" on that personality test (forget its name, but I always come out either an ISTP or INTJ when I look it up) and she might actually be defined as ANTI social, highlighted by "The Facebook Incident" from my intro post.  I'm also a little embarrassed by our house and the prospect of having strangers see it.  My wife can make a surface (like the kitchen table) disappear within hours of me cleaning it off again.  We have no money to upgrade, replace things, decorate, keep up the yard, etc etc.  So our shared introversion and lack of funds have kept us isolated.  I'm convinced that people must be taking their kids to places like The Little Gym around here instead of playgrounds.  Or maybe it's because we don't (and won't) belong to a church and everyone gets their activities through that.

    I can tell you though that just about any woman will lose her mind when she sees a dad pushing a double stroller.  It was hilarious when they were in the tandem model and I would be walking towards a grumpy faced woman.  Once she got a 3/4 view when I got closer she'd see it was a double and suddenly just light up and turn into a gushing... i don't know what, exactly. :))

    Of course, those are usually older women or... not my type.. around here.  She knows this.  Does dread and pre-selection effect work when your wife knows she outranks them?

    Anyway, her legs aren't slammed shut - just not as open as I'd like, and often "starfish mode" when they are.

    I think @Highlander2 nailed the main problem.  She has at times expressed what can only be called jealousy over the arrangement, and the wheels I imagined spinning in her head were exactly as you said:

    "Wives begin to resent you being at home and having extra time with the kids. They won't say much about it because they feel guilty for feeling that way, know it's out of line, try and bury it,  then get even more pissed for putting them in that position...even if it was her idea in the first place."

    This explains the "you're such an awesome daddy" coming out of her mouth while "you suck!" comes out of her actions.

    Thanks all.  Food for thought. 
  • 2manypasswords2manypasswords OhioSilver Member Posts: 366

    @SouthPaw - I just read your back-story, and I recommend more strongly that you find some kind of income generating activity.  Your situation just sounds way too shaky.

    You are not your Myers-Briggs score.  Introversion simply means that you need and prefer a certain amount of alone/down time.  And if your wife is an introvert too, that's all the more reason to put yourself out there & get more practice at dealing with the mommies.   

  • TheatreMommyTheatreMommy CanadaSilver Member Posts: 959
    I do not believe that being a SAHD and being Captain is mutually exclusive.
    1) be in charge of the finances
    2) do a damn good job of captaining the kids
    3) make sure the labour is equitably divided - just as it should be when the gal is a SAHM (SAHD shouldn't be doing everything and turned into a maid - clothing doesn't get dropped at his feet to be laundered etc).
    4) do the at-home stuff well. Seriously. Don't make her cringe at the stuff you never learned to do and consequently don't bother trying to learn.
    5) Lets you get to "things" you've been meaning to do... manly things... exercise, yard work... grrr... 
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