Its been 2 years since D day and I still hurt.

2

Comments

  • Changed_ManChanged_Man ChicagolandSilver Member Posts: 1,964
    How do you start any conversation like this? You be honest and forthright... you sit her down, you tell her that the affair has never been properly settled in your mind and there is no expiration date. You promise that if you get straight answers to troubling questions, this wont be a reoccurring event, and the real healing of the marriage can truly begin. it may be safest to do this in couples counseling.

    When push comes to shove, you taste what you're made of. You might bend til you break, cause it's all you can take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off... And you stand!

    "Stand" by Rascal Flatts


  • mixnmatchmixnmatch CaliforniaSilver Member Posts: 497
    How do you start any conversation like this? You be honest and forthright... you sit her down, you tell her that the affair has never been properly settled in your mind and there is no expiration date. You promise that if you get straight answers to troubling questions, this wont be a reoccurring event, and the real healing of the marriage can truly begin. it may be safest to do this in couples counseling.
    I was really late to the party too.  My wife lost weight, had tons of GNOs, dropped the kids off at family or friends when I was out of town, lots of "business trips and work social events" but I wasn't able to see the writing on the wall until a few years later.  This lasted for about nine months which is probably how long it took for the dopamine buzz to wear off or for one party to want to take it to the next level and the other not willing to.  My wife also put the 15 lbs back on too.  

    In my gut I know good and well something went on with a certain coworker but without evidence I just get BS trickle truth and told I need to get looked at.  Regardless it's ended.  I've checked.  Now I just spot check from time to time.  It's really tough knowing she could be eating lunch with this guy or out at some work client meeting too.  I've just focused on myself, I look for signs now and try to not be the guy I was before.
  • NotelracNotelrac Member Posts: 3,518
    How would you envision him ripping the bandaid off. Specifically.
    Both go to a marriage therapist / couples counselor.  Say "We're eventually going to want to deal with what happened two years ago.  But first, we want your help resolving these smaller issues."

    This will give the two spouses practice in talking to each other, and establish a therapeutic relationship.  Then you schedule a 2 hour session and rip the scab off.

     

    Changed_ManTemplarDod
  • The_DudeThe_Dude Hollywood Star LanesGold Men Posts: 4,599
    Ok, so you walk into the worlds greatest marraige counselor and try this. She agrees and tells you what she said the first time.  What do you do then. 
    As I walk through notorlac's scenarios for the possible realities, I think
    1. That is the answer you wil get 95% of the time if there is more (100% if not ) and
    2.  You have gained nothing and may cause more damage.
    mixnmatch
  • The_DudeThe_Dude Hollywood Star LanesGold Men Posts: 4,599
    @mixnmatch
    I assume you've considered having her change jobs.  
  • Changed_ManChanged_Man ChicagolandSilver Member Posts: 1,964
    The_Dude said:
    Ok, so you walk into the worlds greatest marraige counselor and try this. She agrees and tells you what she said the first time.  What do you do then. 
    As I walk through notorlac's scenarios for the possible realities, I think
    1. That is the answer you wil get 95% of the time if there is more (100% if not ) and
    2.  You have gained nothing and may cause more damage.

    @The_Dude
    You're trying to make a point here, maybe you should just be plain. Is there school of thought that it's better to not know? Yes, @mixnmatch sounds like he subscribes to it and I would never judge on how he's wired to process this. Me? Nope, I needed to know everything and lay it all out on the table. Why? Because everything I've read and believe says that this is how you build trust.

    If I went into the world's best counselor, knew that there was more but not specifics, and she continued to stonewall me, there would be no chance to rebuild trust and the marriage would be done. Non-negotiable.

    When push comes to shove, you taste what you're made of. You might bend til you break, cause it's all you can take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off... And you stand!

    "Stand" by Rascal Flatts


  • The_DudeThe_Dude Hollywood Star LanesGold Men Posts: 4,599
    Hmmm... I am not trying to make some other point. I agree with you 100% that full disclosure is best. 
    I am just walking through this specific case. 
    He does not have any new evidence to provoke new honesty from her (assuming something more happened).  Asking nicely will not get her to confess now two years later.

    I am also having a hard time figuring out where this conversation is going sideways.  Are you thinking that (assuming more happened) she will come clean by just asking.  Maybe that's what the misunderstanding is. 
    I saw my situation up close, I've seen two others up close. I've read plenty here and other places online. I don't place any confidence in a wayward spouse coming completely clean unless there is evidence, a direct threat of divorce, or some other massive motivating factor.  The spouse explaining the need doesn't do it. 
    Add the fact that there may not be more. You have no way to even judge success. 
    kaldaDod
  • mixnmatchmixnmatch CaliforniaSilver Member Posts: 497
    The_Dude said:
    @mixnmatch
    I assume you've considered having her change jobs.  
    Actually she changed jobs at the same company on her own and currently is at a totally different location.  But people float around sometimes.  Her changing jobs and locations just makes me think she ended it but with the evidence I have it could just be that it is a better job, less hours and more money which it is.
    The_Dude said:
    Ok, so you walk into the worlds greatest marraige counselor and try this. She agrees and tells you what she said the first time.  What do you do then. 
    As I walk through notorlac's scenarios for the possible realities, I think
    1. That is the answer you wil get 95% of the time if there is more (100% if not ) and
    2.  You have gained nothing and may cause more damage.

    @The_Dude
    You're trying to make a point here, maybe you should just be plain. Is there school of thought that it's better to not know? Yes, @mixnmatch sounds like he subscribes to it and I would never judge on how he's wired to process this. Me? Nope, I needed to know everything and lay it all out on the table. Why? Because everything I've read and believe says that this is how you build trust.

    If I went into the world's best counselor, knew that there was more but not specifics, and she continued to stonewall me, there would be no chance to rebuild trust and the marriage would be done. Non-negotiable.
    Trust me I am the last person in the world who doesn't want to know.  It's just really hard to get someone to admit to my gut feeling and year old circumstantial evidence that can be rationalized away. I've even approached it through MC with the same you are crazy response. However, in the present I hired a PI, monitored text/phone/computer and location.  Turned up zero.  I know if I had a PA and my wife turned up what I have a year or so after it ended like I did I would lie and take that to my grave.  I suspect she would do the same if she feels like it was a giant mistake.  Especially now that I have MAPed like a mad man and now I'm the guy she really wants to be married to.  It's sort of a loose loose situation especially now that I'm passing on ass daily.
  • Changed_ManChanged_Man ChicagolandSilver Member Posts: 1,964
    I would disagree... If the spouse is remorseful and truly committed to repairing the marriage, then simply asking is absolutely enough to get an honest response. I agree with Dr. Glass, these conversations are exactly how you rebuild trust and intimacy.

    If your spouse is unable to do that, then the marriage is done... Maybe not today, tomorrow, or next year, but it's done none the less.

    When push comes to shove, you taste what you're made of. You might bend til you break, cause it's all you can take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off... And you stand!

    "Stand" by Rascal Flatts


  • The_DudeThe_Dude Hollywood Star LanesGold Men Posts: 4,599
    Ok, so I think that is the disagreement. Lets assume your right. What do you do if she tells the same story as the first time you asked?
    mixnmatch
  • PaisleyParkPaisleyPark Fuck Cancer!Silver Member Posts: 123
    Great quandary. I always held the line if there was sex I would be out. I guess if that elephant shows up I will deal with it at that time but not going to let it own my life at this point wondering. I guess I ask myself, am I happy now, yes! Is my marriage better, yes! Sex is great and often, yes!

    I don't know, trust and verify and stay positive, keep MAPping is my plan.

    Good luck
    You Be the Change!
    The_Dude
  • Changed_ManChanged_Man ChicagolandSilver Member Posts: 1,964
    The_Dude said:
    Ok, so I think that is the disagreement. Lets assume your right. What do you do if she tells the same story as the first time you asked?

    If I knew if there was more, was asking specifics, and the spouse couldn't articulate a coherent explanation (note that I'm not saying rational, most fears aren't rational) why she was reluctant to give specifics and/or as willing to work through her concerns/fears of providing specifics, then the marriage is in grave danger.

    You're quandary seems to be how you get your spouse to come clean, mine is where does that leave the marriage when you can't.

    When push comes to shove, you taste what you're made of. You might bend til you break, cause it's all you can take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off... And you stand!

    "Stand" by Rascal Flatts


  • The_DudeThe_Dude Hollywood Star LanesGold Men Posts: 4,599
    @changed_man "If I knew if there was more, was asking specifics" Exactly. He doesn't have those two conditions. He doesn't know there is more. He doesn't have any specifics that are unexplained. His situation does not match the assumptions.
  • Changed_ManChanged_Man ChicagolandSilver Member Posts: 1,964
    The_Dude said:
    @changed_man "If I knew if there was more, was asking specifics" Exactly. He doesn't have those two conditions. He doesn't know there is more. He doesn't have any specifics that are unexplained. His situation does not match the assumptions.

    Ok, I will concede that his original post and triage is vague on what he actually knows... OP does need to explain why there is still an info disconnect after 2 years.

    When push comes to shove, you taste what you're made of. You might bend til you break, cause it's all you can take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off... And you stand!

    "Stand" by Rascal Flatts


  • StillAwsome2StillAwsome2 CanadaSilver Member Posts: 23
    @Changed_Man, @The_Dude. I thank you for your comments and will let you know exactly what I know.

    From My Wife: They did share that she and the OM had feelings for each other and said they should never act on it as it would end their respective marriages. They were never sexual and she swore to God on the Kids they were not. She admitted that she was in appropriate and that she wanted to stay married and that she would not contact him any longer which was the case from what I could see from my monitoring.

    From Me : I read all here texts and facebook messages there was nothing sexual or flirtatious except the day before I confronted her. I saw that she did stop contact. No more texts or Facebook. They do not work in the same office any more but on occasion they could and every time she did/does tells me the day before. I have spot checked on occasion.

    after all that and I hope I was complete enough. I still have a suspicion it could have been sexual maybe over the time they were away out of town on training. It could just be insecurity that dwells up and maybe due to triggers. I do appreciate the comments and the insight I have received.

    “Anyone can manage when things go right. It takes a leader to take charge when things go wrong.”
    zeroday
  • Changed_ManChanged_Man ChicagolandSilver Member Posts: 1,964
    @Changed_Man, @The_Dude. I thank you for your comments and will let you know exactly what I know.

    From My Wife: They did share that she and the OM had feelings for each other and said they should never act on it as it would end their respective marriages. They were never sexual and she swore to God on the Kids they were not. She admitted that she was in appropriate and that she wanted to stay married and that she would not contact him any longer which was the case from what I could see from my monitoring.

    From Me : I read all here texts and facebook messages there was nothing sexual or flirtatious except the day before I confronted her. I saw that she did stop contact. No more texts or Facebook. They do not work in the same office any more but on occasion they could and every time she did/does tells me the day before. I have spot checked on occasion.

    after all that and I hope I was complete enough. I still have a suspicion it could have been sexual maybe over the time they were away out of town on training. It could just be insecurity that dwells up and maybe due to triggers. I do appreciate the comments and the insight I have received.
    Ok, thanks for clearing it up.

    I have to agree with @The_Dude then... if all you have is suspicions and her story has been consistent through out, then it's not your gut that's talking to you, it's your insecurities. This is all on you and if you can't work this out on your own, then therapy may be your best option.

    When push comes to shove, you taste what you're made of. You might bend til you break, cause it's all you can take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off... And you stand!

    "Stand" by Rascal Flatts


    PhoenixDownDaveBowman
  • The_DudeThe_Dude Hollywood Star LanesGold Men Posts: 4,599
    Good luck friend. To be honest, I think it sounds like you've repaired this as well as possible. 
    I wish everyone could get it through they're heads how damaging EA's are. Unfortunately, most people don't learn about this stuff until the damage has been done.
    And stick around. Get the primer book. It's very good. Unlike so much of the baloney I've read over the past few years. I stumbled in here for a very similar reason you did. I see that as a stroke of luck. 
  • StillAwsome2StillAwsome2 CanadaSilver Member Posts: 23
    @Change_man, @The_Dude and everyone else. Thanks all for your comments. 

    I agree that EA's are devastating and yes it was good luck I came here. I have read other garbage too and if it had worked I would not be here. In the short time I do feel better maybe because I got to vent and looking at different perspectives and threads.. I will definitely stick around. I am going on a family Vaca for a week will probably post on my return.

    Thanks Again

    “Anyone can manage when things go right. It takes a leader to take charge when things go wrong.”
  • Athol_KayAthol_Kay My Underground LairPosts: 7,996

    It doesn't sounds like it went physical, though certainly very close.

    The issue is the wound never gets to fully close because they still work near each other once in a while and you get to hear this guys name again and again from her.

    If you're still monitoring her, it's *never* been over. It will drive you crazy if you keep doing it. It's very much a "go in and find what you need, then get out" thing.

     One Hour Call   12-Week Guided MAP

    "The turnaround is tremendous.  And I'm lifting weights, eating better, and tackling projects.  I have all this great energy without a vampire sucking my life force.  :)  He's a lot stronger standing on his own two feet, as well."  - Scarlet

  • NYCCatNYCCat NYCMember Posts: 27
    edited August 2013
    @StillConfused2:

    Using logic, the only reason to believe this didn't go physical and isn't still on-going as a physical/emotional affair is that the actuality of an affair doesn't square with the way you would like your reality to be.

    And IMO that's not a good reason at all to assume anything less than a worst case scenario.  It's simply wishful thinking.

    The behaviors of your wife and the OM, that you are aware of, are entirely consistent with a PA & EA and the cover-up normally associated with a PA & EA.

    Will you ever get solid "evidence" of it?  If that's what you really want, then (at a minimum) you have to hire a private investigator and also ask your wife to take a polygraph.  If you haven't done both of those things then you can't honestly say the truth is what you are really looking for here.  

    No, private investigators and certainly polygraphs aren't infallible.  By any means.  Nor necessarily comprehensive especially if the suspected cheater is skillful at deception.  But what they are, is "third party" means of finding out the truth.  Or attempting to find out the truth.

    What you can't do is not do at least those two things and then pretend to yourself that you actually want to get at the truth.

    **Your wife "swearing on the children" IMO was a real "tell" for cheating.  The kind of over-the-top protestation of innocence that is frequently observed among cheaters.   The whole scenario you lay out is so ripe for cheating--wife returning to the work force, four day conference followed by ten day conference, OM sniffing around, emails--OM doesn't stick around for the emails and EA unless he expects to get wet, and why would he have that expectation unless he'd already gotten wet.  The job location changes are probably not random or coincidental but designed or manipulated to give them better access to one another.  Sh*t don't happen  randomly.  And just because your own private amateur monitoring isn't turning anything up doesn't establish innocence, since they could just be better at hiding it than you are at finding it, and you (naturally) have an incredibly strong bias towards not finding it.  A P.I. isn't going to have a bias towards not finding it and may have other ways or techniques of developing and following up on clues and evidence.


    the OM recently got a Job and does sometimes have to work in the same office but she tells me every time for full disclosure

    It would greatly concern me that the wife is even "in the loop" enough as to OM's existence and whereabouts to be able to know the OM's comings and goings to be able to tell the OP when OM is there.   
    StillAwsome2Moonstone
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